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	<title>Comments on: (Research thread V) Determinstic way to find primes</title>
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	<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2009/10/27/research-thread-v-determinstic-way-to-find-primes/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 May 2013 22:49:17 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Terence Tao</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2009/10/27/research-thread-v-determinstic-way-to-find-primes/#comment-18912</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Terence Tao]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 May 2013 22:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=130#comment-18912</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you are referring to the algorithm in http://www.math.sunysb.edu/~moira/mat331-spr10/papers/1995%20RibenboimSelling%20Primes.pdf , the problem is that one needs to find (for a given prime p), an integer k for which 2kp+1 is prime.  Such integers should exist in relative abundance, but there is no known rapid deterministic way of actually getting one&#039;s hands on such a k other than by trying different k one at a time.   (The section on &quot;Feasibility of the algorithm&quot; discusses this point.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you are referring to the algorithm in <a href="http://www.math.sunysb.edu/~moira/mat331-spr10/papers/1995%20RibenboimSelling%20Primes.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.math.sunysb.edu/~moira/mat331-spr10/papers/1995%20RibenboimSelling%20Primes.pdf</a> , the problem is that one needs to find (for a given prime p), an integer k for which 2kp+1 is prime.  Such integers should exist in relative abundance, but there is no known rapid deterministic way of actually getting one&#8217;s hands on such a k other than by trying different k one at a time.   (The section on &#8220;Feasibility of the algorithm&#8221; discusses this point.)</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2009/10/27/research-thread-v-determinstic-way-to-find-primes/#comment-18909</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 May 2013 22:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=130#comment-18909</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is the algorithm given by Ribenboim in &quot;Selling Primes&quot; (My Numbers, My Friends), which constructs arbitrarily large proven primes, not sufficient?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is the algorithm given by Ribenboim in &#8220;Selling Primes&#8221; (My Numbers, My Friends), which constructs arbitrarily large proven primes, not sufficient?</p>
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		<title>By: Kim E Lumbard</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2009/10/27/research-thread-v-determinstic-way-to-find-primes/#comment-4537</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kim E Lumbard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=130#comment-4537</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Howdy all!

Just thought I&#039;d let you know that I&#039;ve proven Andrica&#039;s Conjecture by re-examining the Sieve of Eratosthenes:
  http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~kel/MPP/AndricaConjectureTrue.pdf
The proof shows that, at the n-th step of the sieve, the largest gap generated is at most $2 p_{n-1}$, from which Andrica follows.  I call the state of elimination at the n-th step $\kappa_n$. 

So, right off the bat, you can find a prime in $N^{1/2}$, even without the Riemann Hypothesis.  (Note that this isn&#039;t an asymptotic result, like $N^{0.525}$; it holds for all primes.)

However, I believe we can do a better search in practice.  A naive generation of $\kappa_n$ up to $N$ requires $O(log N)$ computation and $O(N)$ storage.  At that point, the density of primes is around 
  $M_n = \Pi_{i=1}^{n} \frac{p_i -1}{p_i} ~ \frac{1}{e^\gamma \log{p_n}}$
But a more sophisticated search would pre-calculate where in $\kappa_n$ $N$ lay and only keep around the requisite intervals, namely those that lie around a Biggest Resolution of $p_B = p_n$.  Check out Theorems 2.8 and 2.9 for more details.

Btw, I&#039;m firmly convinced Cramer&#039;s Conjecture is true.  I have developed a conditional proof that shows if Cramer&#039;s Conjecture were true, then all the constellation infinity conjectures must be true simultaneously.  Were Cramer true, then primes are packed incredibly tight and with much more regularity than we can currently show.  The side effect of the conditional proof is that we could not only find _a_ prime after $N$ in log time, we could find the _exact next prime_ in log time.  

I hope this helps you in your quest for deterministic prime finding!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howdy all!</p>
<p>Just thought I&#8217;d let you know that I&#8217;ve proven Andrica&#8217;s Conjecture by re-examining the Sieve of Eratosthenes:<br />
  <a href="http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~kel/MPP/AndricaConjectureTrue.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~kel/MPP/AndricaConjectureTrue.pdf</a><br />
The proof shows that, at the n-th step of the sieve, the largest gap generated is at most $2 p_{n-1}$, from which Andrica follows.  I call the state of elimination at the n-th step $\kappa_n$. </p>
<p>So, right off the bat, you can find a prime in $N^{1/2}$, even without the Riemann Hypothesis.  (Note that this isn&#8217;t an asymptotic result, like $N^{0.525}$; it holds for all primes.)</p>
<p>However, I believe we can do a better search in practice.  A naive generation of $\kappa_n$ up to $N$ requires $O(log N)$ computation and $O(N)$ storage.  At that point, the density of primes is around<br />
  $M_n = \Pi_{i=1}^{n} \frac{p_i -1}{p_i} ~ \frac{1}{e^\gamma \log{p_n}}$<br />
But a more sophisticated search would pre-calculate where in $\kappa_n$ $N$ lay and only keep around the requisite intervals, namely those that lie around a Biggest Resolution of $p_B = p_n$.  Check out Theorems 2.8 and 2.9 for more details.</p>
<p>Btw, I&#8217;m firmly convinced Cramer&#8217;s Conjecture is true.  I have developed a conditional proof that shows if Cramer&#8217;s Conjecture were true, then all the constellation infinity conjectures must be true simultaneously.  Were Cramer true, then primes are packed incredibly tight and with much more regularity than we can currently show.  The side effect of the conditional proof is that we could not only find _a_ prime after $N$ in log time, we could find the _exact next prime_ in log time.  </p>
<p>I hope this helps you in your quest for deterministic prime finding!</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Chen</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2009/10/27/research-thread-v-determinstic-way-to-find-primes/#comment-4534</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Chen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 10:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=130#comment-4534</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have found a similar question that might help a bit?  Let K be given and S the set of polynomials with positive coefficients.  Find a polynomial of degree k which is irreducible in S adjoin [x] (which is fairly simplistic because you only need to show is that the coefficients add up to a prime number strictly greater than K and all coefficients must be 1 or greater).  I don&#039;t know if my proof is original but it certainly works.  Suppose by way of contradiction, f(x) has degree K and all coefficients are 1 or greater where p is prime and f(1) = p &gt; K.  Suppose f(x) = g(x)h(x) where both g(x) and h(x) have positive coefficients.  Then f(1) = g(1)h(1).  But this is impossible unless [g(1) = 1 and h(1) = p] or [h(1) = 1 and g(1) = p].  Since the sum of coefficients of h(1) = 1 or p, we will assume not p and prove h(1) is invalid.  Clearly if h(1) = 1, h(x) = x^m  And we could divide through to get a new f(x) to which we repeat this process of dividing by h(x) until h(x) is 1 and f(x) is irreducible.

(So the easy way to come up with a polynomial is to have x^n + bx^(n-1) + 2x^(n-2) + 2^(n-3) ... +2 where b is even and 1 + 2*(n-2) + b is prime and so f(1) = a prime and f(x) is irreducible under Eisenstein&#039;s Criterion).

Now suppose we have for each K at least one corresponding f(x).  How do we know that for some constant m f(m) is prime for some not-so-general and very-integery m AND m does not change for each f(x)?  Find the least prime number, q, which is greater than any coefficients for any of the f(x) AND q must also be greater than K.  The coefficients of the f(x) when put together side by side should form a number base q that is at least pseudoprime.

Examples: x^2 + 2x + 2.  f(1) = 5.  122 base 5 is 37.  Also 122 base 3 is 17.

x^2 + 4x + 2.  142 base 5 is 47.  142 base 7 is 79.

x^10 + 4x^9 + 2x^8 + 2x^7 + 2x^6 + 2x^5 + 2x^4 + 2x^3 + 2x^2 + 2x + 2.  Which according to Wolfram Alpha when x = 11 the expression is prime. 35840804903.

To summarize this problem has already been solved in the S adjoin x world if by prime we mean irreducible.  For any K, f(x) = x^K + 3 works (with Eisenstein&#039;s).  I was hoping something really cool would pop out of the polynomials.

I apologize as this response was a bit fuzzy (as my brain was not feeling perfect).  I have not checked what kind of numbers one would want to plug in for f(x) = x^K + p to spit out numeric primes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have found a similar question that might help a bit?  Let K be given and S the set of polynomials with positive coefficients.  Find a polynomial of degree k which is irreducible in S adjoin [x] (which is fairly simplistic because you only need to show is that the coefficients add up to a prime number strictly greater than K and all coefficients must be 1 or greater).  I don&#8217;t know if my proof is original but it certainly works.  Suppose by way of contradiction, f(x) has degree K and all coefficients are 1 or greater where p is prime and f(1) = p &gt; K.  Suppose f(x) = g(x)h(x) where both g(x) and h(x) have positive coefficients.  Then f(1) = g(1)h(1).  But this is impossible unless [g(1) = 1 and h(1) = p] or [h(1) = 1 and g(1) = p].  Since the sum of coefficients of h(1) = 1 or p, we will assume not p and prove h(1) is invalid.  Clearly if h(1) = 1, h(x) = x^m  And we could divide through to get a new f(x) to which we repeat this process of dividing by h(x) until h(x) is 1 and f(x) is irreducible.</p>
<p>(So the easy way to come up with a polynomial is to have x^n + bx^(n-1) + 2x^(n-2) + 2^(n-3) &#8230; +2 where b is even and 1 + 2*(n-2) + b is prime and so f(1) = a prime and f(x) is irreducible under Eisenstein&#8217;s Criterion).</p>
<p>Now suppose we have for each K at least one corresponding f(x).  How do we know that for some constant m f(m) is prime for some not-so-general and very-integery m AND m does not change for each f(x)?  Find the least prime number, q, which is greater than any coefficients for any of the f(x) AND q must also be greater than K.  The coefficients of the f(x) when put together side by side should form a number base q that is at least pseudoprime.</p>
<p>Examples: x^2 + 2x + 2.  f(1) = 5.  122 base 5 is 37.  Also 122 base 3 is 17.</p>
<p>x^2 + 4x + 2.  142 base 5 is 47.  142 base 7 is 79.</p>
<p>x^10 + 4x^9 + 2x^8 + 2x^7 + 2x^6 + 2x^5 + 2x^4 + 2x^3 + 2x^2 + 2x + 2.  Which according to Wolfram Alpha when x = 11 the expression is prime. 35840804903.</p>
<p>To summarize this problem has already been solved in the S adjoin x world if by prime we mean irreducible.  For any K, f(x) = x^K + 3 works (with Eisenstein&#8217;s).  I was hoping something really cool would pop out of the polynomials.</p>
<p>I apologize as this response was a bit fuzzy (as my brain was not feeling perfect).  I have not checked what kind of numbers one would want to plug in for f(x) = x^K + p to spit out numeric primes.</p>
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		<title>By: ZOJoseph</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2009/10/27/research-thread-v-determinstic-way-to-find-primes/#comment-3300</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ZOJoseph]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jul 2011 02:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=130#comment-3300</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Познакомься на Love Znakomstva.tk – это сайт знакомств для тех, кто находится в поиске. Тех, кто ищет романтических отношений, дружеской привязанности или просто ни к чему не обязывающей болтовни. Зарегистрируйтесь, разместите свою фотографию и уже через несколько минут к вам в почту посыпятся десятки, а может и сотни писем с предложениями знакомиться, дружить или любить.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Познакомься на Love Znakomstva.tk – это сайт знакомств для тех, кто находится в поиске. Тех, кто ищет романтических отношений, дружеской привязанности или просто ни к чему не обязывающей болтовни. Зарегистрируйтесь, разместите свою фотографию и уже через несколько минут к вам в почту посыпятся десятки, а может и сотни писем с предложениями знакомиться, дружить или любить.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sponsers</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2009/10/27/research-thread-v-determinstic-way-to-find-primes/#comment-3151</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sponsers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 May 2011 18:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=130#comment-3151</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Спонсор ищет девушку 
 для   настоящих 
отношений, параметрыкретерии: от 18 до 20 лет рост  
до 175 см. волосы светлые, модельное телосложение. личный помощник   т.79262036777 Руслан 
теги: 
объявления знакомства  
 знакомства через интернет]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Спонсор ищет девушку<br />
 для   настоящих<br />
отношений, параметрыкретерии: от 18 до 20 лет рост<br />
до 175 см. волосы светлые, модельное телосложение. личный помощник   т.79262036777 Руслан<br />
теги:<br />
объявления знакомства<br />
 знакомства через интернет</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Shailendra</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2009/10/27/research-thread-v-determinstic-way-to-find-primes/#comment-3141</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shailendra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 May 2011 09:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=130#comment-3141</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi there,

I did plot a graph for prime number against whole number on y axis. The graph was initially exponential and had became bit linear to the X-axis more and more as we had moved away from origin and parallel to X-axis.
There fore i am sure one point will cone after which we can&#039;t come up with any prime number and that point would be the very intresting as well because at that point we can understand the spliting of a digit into two.

Thanking you
Shail]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there,</p>
<p>I did plot a graph for prime number against whole number on y axis. The graph was initially exponential and had became bit linear to the X-axis more and more as we had moved away from origin and parallel to X-axis.<br />
There fore i am sure one point will cone after which we can&#8217;t come up with any prime number and that point would be the very intresting as well because at that point we can understand the spliting of a digit into two.</p>
<p>Thanking you<br />
Shail</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Harald Helfgott</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2009/10/27/research-thread-v-determinstic-way-to-find-primes/#comment-2266</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harald Helfgott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 18:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=130#comment-2266</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We never got around to figuring out whether the method in Vinogradov&#039;s exercises is original to Vinogradov, or whether it appeared before somewhere. (Vinogradov never gives references in his textbook, not even to his own work.) Has anybody got some sort of sense of what is the case here?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We never got around to figuring out whether the method in Vinogradov&#8217;s exercises is original to Vinogradov, or whether it appeared before somewhere. (Vinogradov never gives references in his textbook, not even to his own work.) Has anybody got some sort of sense of what is the case here?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Terence Tao</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2009/10/27/research-thread-v-determinstic-way-to-find-primes/#comment-2033</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Terence Tao]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 18:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=130#comment-2033</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, I&#039;ve set up a Subversion repository for the project at

http://www2.xp-dev.com/sc/browse/86755/

so you can _download_ the files at any time whenever you have internet access, but to upload anything you either need to install the Subversion software, or email me with any modified files etc.  Either way should work fine, though the former way would of course be more direct.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;ve set up a Subversion repository for the project at</p>
<p><a href="http://www2.xp-dev.com/sc/browse/86755/" rel="nofollow">http://www2.xp-dev.com/sc/browse/86755/</a></p>
<p>so you can _download_ the files at any time whenever you have internet access, but to upload anything you either need to install the Subversion software, or email me with any modified files etc.  Either way should work fine, though the former way would of course be more direct.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Harald</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2009/10/27/research-thread-v-determinstic-way-to-find-primes/#comment-2031</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harald]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 17:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=130#comment-2031</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My first &quot;.&quot; should have been a &quot;?&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first &#8220;.&#8221; should have been a &#8220;?&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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