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	<title>Comments on: Polymath7 research thread 1: The Hot Spots Conjecture</title>
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	<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2012/06/12/polymath7-research-thread-1-the-hot-spots-conjecture/</link>
	<description>Massively collaborative mathematical projects</description>
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		<title>By: Polymath7 research threads 3: the Hot Spots Conjecture &#171; The polymath blog</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2012/06/12/polymath7-research-thread-1-the-hot-spots-conjecture/#comment-6550</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Polymath7 research threads 3: the Hot Spots Conjecture &#171; The polymath blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 19:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=276#comment-6550</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] time to roll over the research thread for the Polymath7 &#8220;Hot Spots&#8221; conjecture, as the previous research thread has again become [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] time to roll over the research thread for the Polymath7 &#8220;Hot Spots&#8221; conjecture, as the previous research thread has again become [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Updates on the two polymath projects &#171; What&#8217;s new</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2012/06/12/polymath7-research-thread-1-the-hot-spots-conjecture/#comment-6278</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Updates on the two polymath projects &#171; What&#8217;s new]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 22:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=276#comment-6278</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] been quite an active discussion in the last week or so, with almost 200 comments across two threads (and a third thread freshly opened up just now).  While the problem is still not completely [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] been quite an active discussion in the last week or so, with almost 200 comments across two threads (and a third thread freshly opened up just now).  While the problem is still not completely [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Terence Tao</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2012/06/12/polymath7-research-thread-1-the-hot-spots-conjecture/#comment-6276</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Terence Tao]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 21:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=276#comment-6276</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As you can see, I&#039;ve rolled over the thread again as this thread is also approaching 100 comments and getting a little hard to follow.  The pace is a bit hectic, but I guess this is a good thing, as it is an indication that we are making progress and understanding the problem better...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As you can see, I&#8217;ve rolled over the thread again as this thread is also approaching 100 comments and getting a little hard to follow.  The pace is a bit hectic, but I guess this is a good thing, as it is an indication that we are making progress and understanding the problem better&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Polymath7 research threads 2: the Hot Spots Conjecture &#171; The polymath blog</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2012/06/12/polymath7-research-thread-1-the-hot-spots-conjecture/#comment-6275</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Polymath7 research threads 2: the Hot Spots Conjecture &#171; The polymath blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 21:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=276#comment-6275</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] previous research thread for the Polymath7 &#8220;Hot Spots Conjecture&#8221; project has once again become quite full, so [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] previous research thread for the Polymath7 &#8220;Hot Spots Conjecture&#8221; project has once again become quite full, so [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bartlomiej Siudeja</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2012/06/12/polymath7-research-thread-1-the-hot-spots-conjecture/#comment-6270</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bartlomiej Siudeja]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=276#comment-6270</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have done a few numerical plots for super-equilateral triangles sheared by very small number. It seems that the speed at which nodal line moves away from the vertex when shearing is growing when isosceles triangle approaches equilateral. For triangle with vertices (0,0), (1,0) and (1/2+epsilon,sqrt(3)/ (2+epsilon)), nodal line looks almost the same regardless of epsilon. I tried epsilon=0.1, 0.01, 0.0001. Nodal line touches the side about 1/3 of the way from vertex.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have done a few numerical plots for super-equilateral triangles sheared by very small number. It seems that the speed at which nodal line moves away from the vertex when shearing is growing when isosceles triangle approaches equilateral. For triangle with vertices (0,0), (1,0) and (1/2+epsilon,sqrt(3)/ (2+epsilon)), nodal line looks almost the same regardless of epsilon. I tried epsilon=0.1, 0.01, 0.0001. Nodal line touches the side about 1/3 of the way from vertex.</p>
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		<title>By: Luc Hillairet</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2012/06/12/polymath7-research-thread-1-the-hot-spots-conjecture/#comment-6267</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Luc Hillairet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=276#comment-6267</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks ! Actually what I had in mind was trying to prove that $latex t\mapsto u(t)$ is analytic with values in $latex C^0(T_0)$ but then I 
imprudently jumped to think that this would imply the analyticity of the supnorm. So I am not sure there is something to save from the analyticity 
approach I was suggesting. 

Except maybe the following fact : I think that the set of triangles such that $latex \lambda_2$ is simple is open and dense 
(and also full measure for a natural class of Lebesgue measure). 
We have proved that for any mixed Dirichlet-Neumann boundary condition ... except Neumann everywhere ! I have a sketch of proof 
for the latter case but I never carried out the details (so there may be some bugs in the argument).  

Last thing concerning analyticity of the eigenvalues and eigenfunctions, this holds only for one-parameter analytic families of triangles. 
I don&#039;t think the eigenvalues can be arranged to be analytic on the full parameter space (because there are crossings).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks ! Actually what I had in mind was trying to prove that <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=t%5Cmapsto+u%28t%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000000&amp;s=0' alt='t&#92;mapsto u(t)' title='t&#92;mapsto u(t)' class='latex' /> is analytic with values in <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=C%5E0%28T_0%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000000&amp;s=0' alt='C^0(T_0)' title='C^0(T_0)' class='latex' /> but then I<br />
imprudently jumped to think that this would imply the analyticity of the supnorm. So I am not sure there is something to save from the analyticity<br />
approach I was suggesting. </p>
<p>Except maybe the following fact : I think that the set of triangles such that <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Clambda_2&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000000&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;lambda_2' title='&#92;lambda_2' class='latex' /> is simple is open and dense<br />
(and also full measure for a natural class of Lebesgue measure).<br />
We have proved that for any mixed Dirichlet-Neumann boundary condition &#8230; except Neumann everywhere ! I have a sketch of proof<br />
for the latter case but I never carried out the details (so there may be some bugs in the argument).  </p>
<p>Last thing concerning analyticity of the eigenvalues and eigenfunctions, this holds only for one-parameter analytic families of triangles.<br />
I don&#8217;t think the eigenvalues can be arranged to be analytic on the full parameter space (because there are crossings).</p>
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		<title>By: Bartlomiej Siudeja</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2012/06/12/polymath7-research-thread-1-the-hot-spots-conjecture/#comment-6266</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bartlomiej Siudeja]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 16:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=276#comment-6266</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I used to use PDEToolbox for visualizations, but I no longer have license for it. Besides, it does not have 3D, and eigenvalues in 3D behave much worse than in 2D. I have written a wrapper for eigensolver from FEniCS project (http://fenicsproject.org/). It is most likely not good for rigorous numerics, and I am not even a beginner in FEM. However, it works perfectly for plotting. In particular one can see that nodal line moves away very quickly from vertices. The nearly equilateral case Nilima posted must indeed be extremely close to equilateral. While Nilima crunches the data, anyone who wants to see more pictures is welcome to use my script. It is a rough implementation with no-so-good documentation, but it can handle many domains with any boundary conditions (also mixed). There is a readme file. Download link: http://pages.uoregon.edu/siudeja/fenics.zip. I have not tested this only on Mac, so I am not sure it will work in Windows or Linux, though it should. 

To get a triangle one can use 
python eig.py tr a b -N -s number -m -c3 -e3
tr is domain specification, a,b is the third vertex, -N gives Neumann, -s number is number of triangles, -m shows mesh, -c3 gives contours instead of surface plots (3 contours are good for nodal line), -e3 to get 3 eigenvalues
There are many options. python eig.py -h lists all of them with minimalistic explanations]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to use PDEToolbox for visualizations, but I no longer have license for it. Besides, it does not have 3D, and eigenvalues in 3D behave much worse than in 2D. I have written a wrapper for eigensolver from FEniCS project (<a href="http://fenicsproject.org/" rel="nofollow">http://fenicsproject.org/</a>). It is most likely not good for rigorous numerics, and I am not even a beginner in FEM. However, it works perfectly for plotting. In particular one can see that nodal line moves away very quickly from vertices. The nearly equilateral case Nilima posted must indeed be extremely close to equilateral. While Nilima crunches the data, anyone who wants to see more pictures is welcome to use my script. It is a rough implementation with no-so-good documentation, but it can handle many domains with any boundary conditions (also mixed). There is a readme file. Download link: <a href="http://pages.uoregon.edu/siudeja/fenics.zip" rel="nofollow">http://pages.uoregon.edu/siudeja/fenics.zip</a>. I have not tested this only on Mac, so I am not sure it will work in Windows or Linux, though it should. </p>
<p>To get a triangle one can use<br />
python eig.py tr a b -N -s number -m -c3 -e3<br />
tr is domain specification, a,b is the third vertex, -N gives Neumann, -s number is number of triangles, -m shows mesh, -c3 gives contours instead of surface plots (3 contours are good for nodal line), -e3 to get 3 eigenvalues<br />
There are many options. python eig.py -h lists all of them with minimalistic explanations</p>
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		<title>By: Terence Tao</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2012/06/12/polymath7-research-thread-1-the-hot-spots-conjecture/#comment-6265</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Terence Tao]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=276#comment-6265</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think it may be difficult to show analyticity of a sup norm; note that even the sup of two analytic functions $latex \max(f(t),g(t))$ is not analytic when the two functions cross (e.g. $latex &#124;t&#124; = \max( t, -t)$).  The enemy here is that as one varies t, a new local extremum gets created somewhere in the interior of the triangle, and eventually grows to the point where it overtakes the established extremum on the vertices, creating a non-analytic singularity in the L^infty norm.

However, I think one does have analyticity as long as the extrema are unique (up to symmetry, in the isosceles case) and non-degenerate (i.e. their Hessian is definite), and the eigenvalue is simple.  This is for instance the case for the non-equilateral acute isosceles and right-angled triangles, where we know that the eigenvalues are simple and the extrema only occur at the vertices of the longest side, and a Bessel expansion at a (necessarily acute) extremal vertex shows that any extremum is non-degenerate (it looks like a non-zero scalar multiple of the 0th Bessel function $latex J_0(\sqrt{\lambda} r)$, plus lower order terms which are $latex o(r^2)$ as $latex r \to 0$).     Certainly in this setting, the work of Banuelos and Pang ( http://eudml.org/doc/130789;jsessionid=080D9E5423278BA5ACFC818847CA97FE ) applies, and small perturbations of the triangle give small perturbations of the eigenfunction in L^infty norm at least.  This (together with uniform C^2 bounds for eigenfunctions in a compact family of acute triangles, which is sketched on the wiki, and is needed to handle the regions near the vertices) is already enough to give the hot spots conjecture for sufficiently small perturbations of a right-angled or non-equilateral acute isosceles triangle.

The Banuelos-Pang results require the eigenvalue to be simple, so the perturbation theory of the equilateral triangle (in which the second eigenvalue has multiplicity 2) is not directly covered.  However, it seems very likely that for any sufficiently small perturbation of the equilateral triangle, a second eigenfunction of the perturbed triangle should be close in L^infty norm to _some_ second eigenfunction of the original triangle (but this approximating eigenfunction could vary quite discontinuously with respect to the perturbation).  Assuming this, this shows the hot spots conjecture for perturbations of the equilateral triangle as well, because _every_ second eigenfunction of the equilateral triangle can be shown to have extrema only at the vertices, and to be uniformly bounded away from the extremum once one has a fixed distance away from the vertices (this comes from the strict concavity of the image of the complex second eigenfunction of the equilateral triangle, discussed on the wiki).  

The perturbation argument also shows that in order for the hot spots conjecture to fail, there must exist a &quot;threshold&quot; counterexample of an acute triangle in which one of the vertex extrema is matched by a critical point either on the edge or interior of the triangle, though it is not clear to me how to use this information.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it may be difficult to show analyticity of a sup norm; note that even the sup of two analytic functions <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cmax%28f%28t%29%2Cg%28t%29%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000000&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;max(f(t),g(t))' title='&#92;max(f(t),g(t))' class='latex' /> is not analytic when the two functions cross (e.g. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%7Ct%7C+%3D+%5Cmax%28+t%2C+-t%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000000&amp;s=0' alt='|t| = &#92;max( t, -t)' title='|t| = &#92;max( t, -t)' class='latex' />).  The enemy here is that as one varies t, a new local extremum gets created somewhere in the interior of the triangle, and eventually grows to the point where it overtakes the established extremum on the vertices, creating a non-analytic singularity in the L^infty norm.</p>
<p>However, I think one does have analyticity as long as the extrema are unique (up to symmetry, in the isosceles case) and non-degenerate (i.e. their Hessian is definite), and the eigenvalue is simple.  This is for instance the case for the non-equilateral acute isosceles and right-angled triangles, where we know that the eigenvalues are simple and the extrema only occur at the vertices of the longest side, and a Bessel expansion at a (necessarily acute) extremal vertex shows that any extremum is non-degenerate (it looks like a non-zero scalar multiple of the 0th Bessel function <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=J_0%28%5Csqrt%7B%5Clambda%7D+r%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000000&amp;s=0' alt='J_0(&#92;sqrt{&#92;lambda} r)' title='J_0(&#92;sqrt{&#92;lambda} r)' class='latex' />, plus lower order terms which are <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=o%28r%5E2%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000000&amp;s=0' alt='o(r^2)' title='o(r^2)' class='latex' /> as <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=r+%5Cto+0&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000000&amp;s=0' alt='r &#92;to 0' title='r &#92;to 0' class='latex' />).     Certainly in this setting, the work of Banuelos and Pang ( <a href="http://eudml.org/doc/130789;jsessionid=080D9E5423278BA5ACFC818847CA97FE" rel="nofollow">http://eudml.org/doc/130789;jsessionid=080D9E5423278BA5ACFC818847CA97FE</a> ) applies, and small perturbations of the triangle give small perturbations of the eigenfunction in L^infty norm at least.  This (together with uniform C^2 bounds for eigenfunctions in a compact family of acute triangles, which is sketched on the wiki, and is needed to handle the regions near the vertices) is already enough to give the hot spots conjecture for sufficiently small perturbations of a right-angled or non-equilateral acute isosceles triangle.</p>
<p>The Banuelos-Pang results require the eigenvalue to be simple, so the perturbation theory of the equilateral triangle (in which the second eigenvalue has multiplicity 2) is not directly covered.  However, it seems very likely that for any sufficiently small perturbation of the equilateral triangle, a second eigenfunction of the perturbed triangle should be close in L^infty norm to _some_ second eigenfunction of the original triangle (but this approximating eigenfunction could vary quite discontinuously with respect to the perturbation).  Assuming this, this shows the hot spots conjecture for perturbations of the equilateral triangle as well, because _every_ second eigenfunction of the equilateral triangle can be shown to have extrema only at the vertices, and to be uniformly bounded away from the extremum once one has a fixed distance away from the vertices (this comes from the strict concavity of the image of the complex second eigenfunction of the equilateral triangle, discussed on the wiki).  </p>
<p>The perturbation argument also shows that in order for the hot spots conjecture to fail, there must exist a &#8220;threshold&#8221; counterexample of an acute triangle in which one of the vertex extrema is matched by a critical point either on the edge or interior of the triangle, though it is not clear to me how to use this information.</p>
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		<title>By: Nilima Nigam</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2012/06/12/polymath7-research-thread-1-the-hot-spots-conjecture/#comment-6264</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nilima Nigam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 14:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=276#comment-6264</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;[I was editing this comment and I accidentally transferred ownership of it to myself, which is why my icon appears here.  Sorry, please ignore the icon; this is Nilima&#039;s post. - T.]&lt;/i&gt;

An analytic perturbation argument from known cases would certainly be great! I thought about a similar argument for the thin triangle case (http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=The_hot_spots_conjecture, under &#039;thin not-quite-sectors). But I was thinking about perturbing from a sector to the triangle, and you&#039;re thinking about perturbing from one triangle to another. 

Let&#039;s see if I follow your argument.  Following the notation in  (http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=The_hot_spots_conjecture, under &#039;reformulation on a reference domain&#039;), one can replace the reference triangle by any other. One then shows analyticity of the eigenvalues with respect to perturbations in the mapping B, and shows the domain of analyticity is large enough to cover all acute triangles. Is this correct?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>[I was editing this comment and I accidentally transferred ownership of it to myself, which is why my icon appears here.  Sorry, please ignore the icon; this is Nilima's post. - T.]</i></p>
<p>An analytic perturbation argument from known cases would certainly be great! I thought about a similar argument for the thin triangle case (<a href="http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=The_hot_spots_conjecture" rel="nofollow">http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=The_hot_spots_conjecture</a>, under &#8216;thin not-quite-sectors). But I was thinking about perturbing from a sector to the triangle, and you&#8217;re thinking about perturbing from one triangle to another. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s see if I follow your argument.  Following the notation in  (<a href="http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=The_hot_spots_conjecture" rel="nofollow">http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=The_hot_spots_conjecture</a>, under &#8216;reformulation on a reference domain&#8217;), one can replace the reference triangle by any other. One then shows analyticity of the eigenvalues with respect to perturbations in the mapping B, and shows the domain of analyticity is large enough to cover all acute triangles. Is this correct?</p>
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		<title>By: Three number theory bits: One elementary, the 3-Goldbach, and the ABC conjecture &#171; mixedmath</title>
		<link>http://polymathprojects.org/2012/06/12/polymath7-research-thread-1-the-hot-spots-conjecture/#comment-6261</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Three number theory bits: One elementary, the 3-Goldbach, and the ABC conjecture &#171; mixedmath]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polymathprojects.org/?p=276#comment-6261</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] proposed by Chris Evans, and that has already expanded beyond the proposal post into its first research discussion post. (To prevent clutter and to maintain a certain level or organization, the discussion gets cut up [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] proposed by Chris Evans, and that has already expanded beyond the proposal post into its first research discussion post. (To prevent clutter and to maintain a certain level or organization, the discussion gets cut up [...]</p>
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